TEATRO DON OPERATICO
The Decline of Opera Fandom
Date: March 28, 2000 08:59 PM
Author: Don Operatico's Great-Grandfather (The Baritone-Cave)
Subject: O tempora!
There has been a distressing decline in the quality of opera fans.
Opera "lovers" these days simply are not picky enough. In my day we
treated singers like dirt. I remember the Norma with Diva Schmiva.
It was only almost perfect. SHE WAS ONE HUNDRED-AND-TWENTY-EIGHTH
NOTE FLAT ON THE E SHARP IN BAR 217!!!!!!! This completely ruined
the performance for me and for the whole audience. Not only did we
boo her mercilessly, we drove her to drugs. She was last seen in a
crackhouse in the South Bronx. Serves her right! I actually enjoyed
one performance in my opera-going career (my friends said I was
going soft; how could I have missed that the tempo was off by
.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 in bar 413?)
The truth is, we're a dying breed. The next century will only know
tasteless morons who drool at 100th-rate performances.
Date: March 29, 2000 07:12 AM
Author: Christel Devlin
Subject: I am part of the problem in the Great Decline of Opera
Fandom
Pops - I confess that I am part of the problem. I go to opera to
enjoy it. There - I said it - curse me if you must. I know it is
much more fashionable to treat an opera performance as a
combination of train-spotting and judging figure skating. "I saw a
4-8-2 Norfolk and Western Mountain locomotive pulling a cut of
hoppers for the Wheeling WVA power compnay in 1952 that surpassed
my wildest dreams...but it didn't have a triple axle...."
Date: March 29, 2000 09:46 AM
Author: Ben Schuman
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
You're completely insane.
Date: March 29, 2000 01:48 PM
Author: Christel Devlin
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
True.
Date: March 29, 2000 08:58 AM
Author: yggdrasil
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Yeah. So there.
Date: March 29, 2000 10:50 AM
Author: Pippo
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
DOG-G,
Having sensitive ears also (road drills make me queasy), I
sympathise with your problem, but you may find the answer in
watching Charlotte Church's eagerly-awaited Turandot at the Met ( I
forget, is it next season or is that Sarah Brightman's Brunnhilde? )
Date: March 29, 2000 06:51 PM
Author: Don Operatico's Great-Grandfather (The Baritone-Cave)
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Would anyone care to join me at a séance? No living singer is
worthy
of my contempt.
Date: March 29, 2000 11:23 PM
Author: yggdrasil
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Like Jane getting dissed on the basis of one performance of
Tristan which they didn't even see...
Date: March 30, 2000 12:01 AM
Author: joeb
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
My dear boys and girls, just a modest proposal. The true opera fan
is dead because opera is dead (although rigor mortis is not
complete). The last wonderful performance occured in 1975 at the
latest and 25 years is a long time to lie a mouldering in the grave.
And newcomers, if I may, when you have seen La Traviata eight or
nine times and have at least four complete performances on your CD
racks and two videos, you may find that although you want to ENJOY
it as much as you always have, there will be something in your way.
Memory and experience. And no matter how seriously the Diva sinks
into despair, you will hear echoes of a finer voice a lovelier tone
a more forceful staging.
As annoying as they were to me in my youth - spoiling my enjoyment
of a perfectly mediocre performance - the old time Opera Fan is
beginning to make sense to me.
But life is short and art is long, so probably as in so many other
instances, I am totally wrong.
Date: March 30, 2000 10:47 AM
Author: Ben Schuman
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
> My dear boys and girls, just a modest proposal.
> The true opera fan is dead because opera is dead
> (although rigor mortis is not complete). The last
> wonderful performance occured in 1975 at the
> latest and 25 years is a long time to lie a
> mouldering in the grave.
In my opinion, THIS is why opera is dying. Because the opera fan
cannot let go of the rose-colored past and appreciate opera for
what it is: a form of entertainment that is constantly evolving
and changing. If you think of opera as some frozen Maria Callas
moment-in-time, you'll NEVER be satisfied with opera again.
I can't wait for the moment when I hit the big time, and all of
Standing Room says, "Oh, he's no Pavarotti." or Domingo, or Gedda,
or Wunderlich, or Gigli, or whoever.
Date: March 30, 2000 11:28 AM
Author: Odeen
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Well said Ben.
I'm sorry yggdrasil.
Date: March 30, 2000 11:29 AM
Author: Tall Soprano
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
bravo, Ben.
Joeb, I HOPE your posting was a joke [I suspect it was -- DO]
--if it was, disregard the rest of this post.
If not, then shame on you. The last great opera performance took
place 25 years ago? For heaven's sake. If you REALLY believe
that, then why don't you stop going to opera? After all, there's
no hope and you'll never enjoy it again...just stay home with
your recordings and remember better days.
TS, ranting away.
Date: March 30, 2000 12:09 PM
Author: Janice
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
If you think of opera as some frozen
> Maria Callas moment-in-time, you'll NEVER be
> satisfied with opera again.
Oh now Ben eveyone knows that. Better one should have a Beverly
Sills "frozen" moment in time. ;-) OOOO! Better yet! How about a
TS & Ben frozen moment!!! Stemming from the April 15th..Barber
of Seville. WHEN and WHERE is this event to take place again?
*another opportunity for shameless plug*
Janice
Date: March 30, 2000 01:14 PM
Author: Ben Schuman
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
> OOOO! Better yet! How about a TS & Ben frozen
> moment!!! Stemming from the April 15th..Barber of
> Seville. WHEN and WHERE is this event to take
> place again? *another opportunity for shameless
> plug*
Well, Janice, since you asked, I'll tell you. Tall Soprano & I
are performing in the Barber of Seville (concert version
w/piano) - I'm Count Almaviva and she's Rosina.
The first performance takes place on Friday April 7, at 7:30,
at the Jewish Home & Hospital at 120 W. 106th St.
The second performance takes place on Saturday April 15, at
1:30 pm, at the Williams Residence at the corner of 95th
Street & West End Avenue.
Date: March 30, 2000 08:06 PM
Author: joeb
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Dear Ben. What can I say? It was midnight and I was celebrating
the seven odd hundredth anniversary of the Sicilian Vespers.
I think I just got carried away.
By the way opera fans should commemorate March 30, the
anniversary of the S.V. by one of the three traditional methods:
1-eating a slice of sicilian pizza. 2-french kissing the object
of one's affection 3-causing a commotion in the SR.
Date: April 01, 2000 10:53 AM
Author: Allen Grzanka
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
I totally agree Ben. It is one thing to adore singers from your
youth, but it would be a sad day for me if I couldn't enjoy
current performers. Of course no one can replace Moffo and
Nilsson in my heart BUT I can still thoroughly appreciate
Fleming and Eaglen. BTW: finally got Eaglen's Norma on Opera
d'Oro: wonderful! At first I said Mei as Adalgesa? But not only
does it work I think it is right. She should be a lyric opposite
the strong Norma.
Enjoying the past, but not living in it,
Allen
Date: March 30, 2000 01:02 PM
Author: Trick of Fate
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
1975 wuz the year before i wuz born. what wonderful performance
happened then? who wuz in it? u mean there wont be another 1?
dont believe it.
Date: March 30, 2000 11:03 AM
Author: yggdrasil
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Well, I wouldn't be able to judge even that because of the
deplorable conditions of the broadcasts...
ygg
Date: March 30, 2000 03:27 PM
Author: Robert Wilder Blue
Subject: I'm with Ben on this one
BUT I also have to add that I think WE are our own and opera's worst
enemies often. Because of our love for the art form and for this or
that singer (usually of the past) we collect recordings. We look for
the "perfect" performance. When we find it, we become enthralled
with it. We even become addicted to this or that inflection or
nuance.
Then we go to the theater and are disappointed. The orchestra sounds
thinner or quieter in the house. The singers are sometimes covered
by the orchestra. The singer doesn't live up to [fill in he blank]
or is having an off night. Not every night is as "perfect" as the
recording. And finally, we come to conclusion that there is a
definitive interpretation: Vickers's Peter Grimes, Rysanek's
Empress, Price's Aida, etc. Well, those were supreme
accomplishments, no denying that. And all are preserved on
recordings. And of course there is Callas in almost everything (I'm
sure if someone looks hard enough we could find her Peter Grimes
somewhere in the vaults at EMI). And no one can live up to Callas
('s recordings). So are we then to never enjoy another Tosca or
Norma or Aida or Empress? Granted, the Aida's the Met has offered up
over the past 20 or so years (and other companies no doubt) have
been a mixed bad, most a far cry from Ms. Price.
No one needs to tell me what a night at the opera it was seeing
Rysanek's Empress. But I happen to love DIE FRAU OHNE SCHATTEN so I
will continue to try to be open to new sopranos. I don't imagine
Deborah Voigt's will be anything to throw in the dumpster. Ms.
Studer's (seen on video) wasn't bad either. Anyway, I'm rambling a
little. I think it's fine to adore our favorites but it really
doesn't serve us or opera to be closeminded to others (who are
worthy of consideration). BLUE
Date: March 30, 2000 03:38 PM
Author: Don Operatico's Grandson (The Baritone-Cave)
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom: Posted March 30, 2059
Y'know, Joe Tenor's no Ben Schuman. They don't make them like that
anymore. And Prima Donna Assassina's no Tall Soprano, either. They
don't make 'em like they used to, nope, they sure don't.
(http://www.operanews.com/Forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=68842)
Date: March 30, 2000 03:53 PM
Author: Odeen
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
I remember somebody on the Met Quiz once recounting a story of a
friend who loved Nilsson's recordings of Brunnhilde and Turandot.
And then came to hear her live at the Met and couldn't believe
that she wasn't as loud as her recordings.
Date: April 08, 2000 03:21 PM
Author: Allen Grzanka
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Just noticed this post. Obviously the person is an idiot.
Nilsson sounded louder in the house (like a laser) than she ever
did on recordings.
Allen
Date: March 30, 2000 04:47 PM
Author: Don Operatico's Great-Grandfather (The Baritone-Cave)
Subject: The Fun of Being an Opera-Lover who Hates All Actual Opera
Perfs
I remember that baritone who had perfect pitch, sang expressively,
and had great stage presence. I was afraid I was going to enjoy t
his performance as Don Giovanni. Then he tripped on his cape.
Another one bites the dust!
I'm proud of the great singers whose careers I have ruined. Who
wants to enjoy this stuff, anyway? This ain't pop culchah.
Date: March 30, 2000 07:37 PM
Author: joeb
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Yikes!!
Anyway, although he can't be bothered to spell normally. I've got to
thank Trick for his sense of irony.
He reminded me that of course the last good performance was not
1975.
It was 1974.
Date: March 31, 2000 02:39 AM
Author: yggdrasil
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
No. The ONLY performance was in 1953.
ygg
Date: March 31, 2000 09:02 AM
Author: Trick of Fate
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
1974.
what wuz it n who wuz in it? Im interested.
me? ironic?
Date: April 02, 2000 01:28 AM
Author: Sharon Thomas
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
You know the trouble with Melchior? He was no Leo Slezak, who was no
Ludwig Schnorr von Carolsfeld. And you know the trouble with Golden
Ages? They only exist in the past. When you are withered and sere,
clutching your digital ear-trumpet, and some wide-eyed
nineteen-year-old asks, "Did you really hear Bryn Terfel (or
Larmore, Hampson, Villarroel, Domingo, Fleming, Keenlyside, Bonney,
Ramey, Zajick, Hvorostovsky, Borodina, Norman, Malfitano, Flanigan,
Goerne, Eaglen, Bartoli, Podles, Voigt, Studer, Relyea, Dessay,
Graham, von Otter, Von Stade, Van Dam)?" you can say, "No, I was
busy worshiping Antonietta Stella. Now THERE was a voice!"
Date: April 02, 2000 01:56 AM
Author: Allen Grzanka
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
BRAVA SHARON: KEEP POSTING.
Allen
(http://www.operanews.com/Forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=1&Message_ID=69121)
Date: April 02, 2000 07:18 AM
Author: Steve
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
There is a problem with comparing singers of the past with singers
who are in the midst of their careers. Compare Jane Eaglen with
Birgit Nilsson, for example, and you are putting a 38 year old
singer who has compartively few years in her roles against a woman
for whom we have the benefit of referring back to a long,
productive, and great career. This would be like comparing two
mystery novels, one we have finished reading, with one from which we
have read two chapters. An operatic career in progress is just that.
A work in progress, incomplete, with more to come.
Certainly we all have our favorites from the past whom we will
always enjoy in recordings and rightly so, for what they teach us
about technique and performance. Nilsson is my all time favorite
singer, and Eaglen didn't thrill me as Brunhilde as much as Nilsson
did, but that's okay. I still liked what I heard and appreciated her
performance for what it was. On the whole, it is simply not viable
to compare the total complete output of a past singer with the work
of a singer who still has much yet to show us.
There are many good singers today who in another 20 years will be
legendary. But only after they depart the stage will they truly be
ready for comparison with others who have gone before them.
Date: April 02, 2000 09:16 AM
Author: w.a.prozac
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Sharon Thomas is witty and passionate, and I sort of agree with
her, but I have one question: How can we tell apart the mediocre
from the best without comparison to some standards?
I love the new as much as anyone, but when someone is telling me
how superb Bocelli is ( and I am not unwilling to give HIM a
chance to grow), I have no choice but to bring up the great tenors
in comparison.
If I wasn`t remembering Troyanos, how could I know the next mezzo
was any good at all?
Amnesia is not the answer to enjoying the present.
Remembering Antonietta Stella doesn`t have to exclude enjoying
whoever it is singing her roles today. (Altough there really isn`t
anyone doing that, is there?)
And finally, my pet peeve: Where oh where is the next great
castrato!!
Date: April 03, 2000 03:35 PM
Author: Kelly
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Troyanos TOLD you she was good because she MOVED you...
You'll know the next great mezzo because she will do the same...
Date: April 02, 2000 10:15 AM
Author: JS
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Very apt comparison, Steve!
I agree that we need to have SOME standards when it
comes to judging today's crop of singers, and there's always the
rosy glow of faint (and sometimes NOT so faint!) recollection. But
to consistently harp on things like, "Oh, but you should have
heard (insert some older singer no longer active).....," or,
heavens forefend, "Well, SHE'S no Norma......MARIA was Norma,"
seems to me to be as self defeating as shooting yourself
repeatedly in the foot.
We have older recordings; some live documents, some
perfect studio recreations. Opera (in spite of the Cassandras out
there) is still living and breathing. Some years there are great
Wagner voices, sometimes great Mozart voices. And once in a great
while, a phenomenon appears........but for opera to continue to
thrive, we need to stop defeating before it's given a chance to
breathe. Nilsson has retired and Eaglen is still in her formative
years. Instead of tearing her down, wouldn't it be slightly more
constructive to say, "Boy, sh'e really grown since the last time I
heard her."
And now....off to the luncheon!
JS
Date: April 12, 2000 01:11 AM
Author: David Groettum
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
I enjoy Eaglen. Interesting that Renata Tebaldi did not need years
of experience to deliver definitive performances. Her "Aida" in
Rio in '51 will probably set the standard by which all "Aidas" are
judged. She was 29. Of course it didn't hurt that Toscanini
coached her in it in '49.
Date: April 12, 2000 08:16 AM
Author: Ellie Kett
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Hi David,
I think, per my listening history, that Aida just about sets the
standard. I wonder if it could possibly be put onto CD (with
accompanying audio improvements) as that is a performance which
should be preserved in all its glory.
AND NOW BACK TO THE FUTURE.
Date: April 02, 2000 11:39 AM
Author: Mustang
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
All performance art lives in the moment. Today's telling of the
story
is all that really matters. On the other hand, you won't get my Tito
Gobbi CD's from me 'til you pry them from my cold, dead fingers.
Make that arms... I couldn't hold them all in just my hands. But I
digress.
If we are honest with ourselves, only the finest moments tend to
live on in recordings and even the greatest singers had some
performances after which they probably wished they'd stayed home and
watched "The Honey Mooners". Well, maybe not George London- but he
was not a regular mortal so he doesn't really count.
I love live performance as much for the errors as the moments of
splendour. Not to denigrate the singer, but to watch him or her
stand up, dust off, and have at it again. Why? Because there is no
greater thrill than confronting your own fear and failure head on
and beating it into submission.
One final thought- as the prevailing tastes in singing have made
their way around the circle, we now find ourselves back in an age
where the days of "sing every performance as if your life depends on
it" seems to be gone, replace by a lot of careful, dull but
technically "correct" singing. I predict that there will be a new
wave singers who will put it all on the line, take every risk, and
live for one great performance- every new performance- every day of
their lives. Who knows? There may be some dusty old Cavalry officer
leading the charge.
Oh and yes, if you have detected a slightly militaristic aspect to
my tone- that's where I got the monicker "mustang"- I was an
enlisted infantryman turned Intelligence officer. I never liked the
idea of doing things the easy way. To any Infantry grunts out there-
HOOAH! To all you Cav troopers- AIEEAH! And for more polite company-
quite right.
Date: April 03, 2000 01:08 AM
Author: Sharon Thomas
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Dear Wolfgang Amadeus Prozac (I love your name), I never suggested
amnesia or abandonment of standards. I could have made a list twice
as long of singers now dead or retired to whom I return over and
over. What's dangerous, I think, is dwelling on the past to the
exclusion of the present. This is a problem for music in general --
is there a major orchestra anywhere whose repertoire isn't primarily
focused on the nineteenth century? But during that century audiences
expected, and got, new music in the concert hall and the opera
house, the same music that we now cling to. What are we leaving for
the next century? I sometimes wonder if Mendelssohn's "revival" of
Bach was a great event or a poisoned chalice. Obviously we wouldn't
want to do without his music, but after all, Beethoven was hardly
aware of it, and Mozart felt free to re-write it for a modern
audience. Do you ever feel that today's composers have all the
weight of Western music on their shoulders? They must think it's
impossible to be original, so why even try?
I didn't mean to get off on a rant. When I hear a young baritone OF
COURSE I'm going to compare him to Warren or London or Gobbi because
their voices are already stored in my brain. But I hope I can do
justice to what is unique in every voice, and enjoy it on its own
merits. Recording technology has preserved an unprecedented legacy
for us, over a century of artists we can listen to, but this is
equally a burden for today's artists, who are constantly being
compared to people who lived before they were born. Let's give them
a chance.
Date: April 03, 2000 08:48 PM
Author: Joan Abel
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Must confess that I'm what we at the old Met referred to as "Golden
Age Gerties," not the extremists who swore all the great singers are
dead--there are still a few walking around, but one who noticed in
the early 70s a trend towards bland, "laundered" performance styles.
Forgive me and my contemporaries. We were spoiled. I saw the debuts
of Callas, Nilsson, Stella, Bergonzi, Corelli; heard Hotter and
London and Siepi, Bjoerling, delMonaco and Valletti. If I go on,
this will rival the phone book! I was out of opera for many years,
but what brought me back was an aria sung by Carlo Bergonzi at the
James Levine gala. For me, it was the best medicine in the world to
hear style, passion, musicianship all in one artist! Thanks to him,
I'm a born-again opera fan. And Miracle No.2: this season I heard
three singers who roused my enthusiasm: Sumi Jo, Paolo Gavanelli,
and Rene Pape. Gotta be more where they came from. Opera isn't dead,
just a few of us fans!
Date: April 04, 2000 07:57 PM
Author: Don Operatico's Great-Great-Grandfather
(operatico@hotmail.com)
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
You all should have been so lucky as to see Pasta, Ronconi, Varesi,
Grisi, Tadolini. Not that I enjoyed any of their performances. But
at least they were worthy of being panned.
Date: April 08, 2000 10:47 AM
Author: Seth Lubin
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
My take on "the Decline of Opera Fandom" has more to do with the
directors and producers. In 1965, the NY Post ran
an article in it's magazine section. It was about the TOSCAs at
the Met. It had a story and photos of each diva. These ladies
included (remember all in one season), Maria Callas, Renata
Tebaldi, Regine Crespin, Dorothy Kirsten, Gabriella Tucci and
Leonie Rysanek. Each one of these women portrayed their own TOSCA,
with their own costumes. Today, in the age of the director, the
singer must fall into the production. They all wear the same
costume, whether it is becoming or not. They all have to be in the
same spot to go along with the computer lighting. . The conductor
is convinced that his tempi are the only correct ones. It is much
easier to find good sopranos that will be professional and fit
into the production. If their voice or personality are not
exceptional it doesn't matter. They fit into the mold.
Several years ago, I was present when a fan asked Thomas Hampson
why he sang his aria in NOZZE DI FIGARO, so far upstage. The fan
complained that it was not in Hampson's best interest and
suggested that singing farther downstage would have been better.
Hampson simply smiled and stated, he had no choice. The lighting
for the set was done by computer and if he had stood anywhere else
he would have been in the dark.
Opera singers are not computers, only the opera companies think
they should be. An opera fan does not respond to a computer on
stage.
Today, opera singers are disposable like paper cups. If one
singer's "hard-drive" crashes another is quickly replaced and no
one knows the difference. The late Leonie Rysanek gave us such
wonderful performances at the end of her career. These roles
suited her voice at the time. However there was
a time when the great Leonie ran into a rough patch. She sang what
she considered a terrible TOSCA. She cancelled the rest of her
performances. Mr. Bing told her that anytime she felt ready to
sing again, the door would be open for her. She came back and the
rest is history.
Today, you're great for a year or two, then someone else comes
along and your out. No place, no nothing. Gone. Like the crashed
hard drive. This doesn't make opera fans.
Date: April 12, 2000 11:11 AM
Author: Odeen
Subject: The Decline of Opera Fandom
Very very well put Seth!